Patrick Adair | A Hobby Turned Ecommerce Success Story

When Patrick Adair first started his ecommerce business selling custom jewelry rings made out of rare and exotic materials… he didn’t even have a website.

He wanted to see if there was a market first, and he found it on Instagram. And from that beginning he was able to grow Patrick Adair Designs to the powerhouse it is today.

But he’s moved beyond Instagram. First, to YouTube, where he attracted even more of a following. And now to another social network that he says has radically changed his marketing approach over the last year or so.

Patrick tells us about the power of that network (which has actually been around quite awhile), as well as his bootstrap startup strategies that got him to where he is today.

Tune in to find out…

  • The best technique for tweaking your marketing and product lineup
  • How to use the Less Profit Loss Leader Approach
  • The hardest part of creating a YouTube channel – and how to overcome it
  • Strategies for pricing your products for maximum profitability
  • And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in This Episode:

Episode Transcript:

Joris Bryon: Hey, this is Joris of the Ecommerce Excellence Podcast, and today I’m really excited to talk to Patrick Adair. Patrick is the owner of Patrick Adair Designs. He creates rings made on very cool materials like carbon fiber, titanium, even meteorite, and a bunch of other rare materials. He started in 2015 in Salt Lake City. Today, he has a following of over half a million fans and he proceeds to push the boundaries of luxury jewelry. I’m sure this is going to be a very interesting chat. Patrick, welcome to the podcast. Super happy to have you here.

Patrick Adair: Hey, thank you so much for Joris. I really appreciate it. That’s such a nice introduction.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, cool. Can you tell, just to start off, a bit more about your background. Where do you come from in your career? How did you get started in Ecommerce, and why did you decide to do what you do right now?

Patrick Adair: Yeah, I’ll give you the two or three minute version, hit the main points. Essentially, I was in high school. I have always been entrepreneur minded. I like making things and I really liked selling things. I’ve been doing that all throughout growing up. I eventually wanted to do a Kickstarter project. I was doing some research, looked around, trying to figure out what could be successful. I settled on carbon fiber being a really cool product that was really, really trendy. I just ordered some. I was messing around with it, trying to see what I could make. I tried making a wallet out of it. That was a little bit tricky. I needed some better machinery than what I had. Because the ones that I could make by hand were just a little bit sloppy. I didn’t want to do that. It took way too long. It wasn’t a great end result.

I kept messing around. Eventually, I made a ring. I was like, wow, that was actually incredibly easy. All I need to do is stick it on something that spins and sand it until it’s smooth, then you’ve got yourself a ring, you’re just making a circle. So very, very straightforward to make. I ran a Kickstarter, it was very, very simple. I filmed and edited the video on my phone. I think I had a laptop at that time. So, I built a Kickstarter page. But I did everything from when I made the first ring to having my project submitted within 24 hours. So, very quick turnaround, just an experiment for fun. I wanted to see what I can learn from Kickstarter.

That worked. It brought in I think about 5,000 in orders. I bought a bunch of rainmaking equipment I used the equipment to make all my orders. Then naturally, because I had all this ring making equipment and I like making things. Of course, I just kept making rings. I started making rings, started making cool stuff trying to mess around with different designs. Eventually, I started posting what I was doing to Instagram. I found a little community there, did things like joint giveaways with other similar creators and just being interactive in the community in general, and was able to grow a little following. I’m talking like one 500 followers. Then just slowly push it up from there. I didn’t even have a website at this time. I was just doing commissioned rings and post on my Instagram, be like, this is what I do. Not what I do, just post examples of my work. I always tell them that they can order something by DM-ing me, and send me money on PayPal.

I just went through that process. I started doing Instagram auctions, which is where I just say, hey, I’ll make you a custom ring. In the comments below, comment what you’re willing to pay. Whoever comments the highest number wins, and then they sent me the money for it. That was a great way for me to be able to sell at first. Because I think it’s always hardest to get your first sell, your first 100 sell’s very challenging. That was a way for me to be able to not really make any money, but get a lot of marketing data … Not data. I wasn’t using spreadsheets or anything like that, but figuring out my customer, figuring out what people like. That allowed me to grow, allowed me to slowly build what I was making an hour.

When I started out with those auctions, I was making less than minimum wage. It turned from a hobby into something that’s like, okay, this is a nice little side job. Then eventually, I started posting YouTube videos, YouTube, their algorithm, I like a lot better for my content, I feel like … This is a very subjective and probably not entirely true, but I feel like Instagram is really hard to grow naturally. Right now, it’s just ran behind the scenes by big pages creating other big pages. So, it’s just really hard.

YouTube was able to get this great new growth and then it just took off from there slowly. I should say, I ended up actually making a website quite a long while before I started the YouTube channel. I didn’t include that, but it just eventually turned into a better full-fledged business to the point where I moved out of my parents basement and I hired my first employees. From there, it just goes exponential once you can get those first employees hired, I felt like.

Joris Bryon: You know what I like in the story, is that you already sold a bunch of rings even before you got your first site up and running. Because most people would do the other way around. They would create a site and then try to start selling it. You already had sold a bunch of rings, and probably learned a lot as well along the way from what your customers want and whatnot. At what point did you decide to create a site?

Patrick Adair: It was as soon as it made sense. I’d wanted to do a site, but I knew that, and people will probably really relate to this, you just make a website and throw it up. You’re not going to get any orders, you need to have people push towards it. Even if you’ve got an Instagram page, people aren’t just going to make an order. It’s really, really hard to get this for sale.

I was just like, well, I don’t have a lot of time. I was a full-time student. So, I’m just going to post to my Instagram, it’s a lot easier to just … Instagram, there’s nothing you need to do other than post a picture. That was essentially my homepage or my website, you could say.

As soon as I … I probably made a website after my 10th sell or something, and it was a thing of, I’ll do it as soon as I … This was very, very early on, I was doing a very limited number of things. It’s not like I could have eight or 20 products on my website. I had one design that I was just tweaking and doing just weird new experimental stuff.

Once I got a product lineup figured out, that’s when I sat down and I was like, okay, I’ll take some better pictures. I took all the pictures on an iPhone at this point. So, not good pictures, but decent pictures. I think I did it pretty quick. Really, I can’t remember the date night, I felt that. But just as soon as it made sense to me.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, of course. Now, you make a bunch of different rings. How do you decide which rings to make? Is it just a creative process, or do you also listen to the market?

Patrick Adair: What’s great about my audience is that they really help me dictate what is good, it’s the ultimate feedback. What I do with my YouTube channel now, is I try to post once a week, and I just usually the video is me making a new ring design. It usually involves getting a new material or doing a cool theme. I did a theme green based after the Forbidden City in China.

It was four different materials, a lot of different cool techniques. That was one that none of the materials were insane or crazy, but it was just a cool design overall, and others, just pure meteorite ring. That’s just one material. It’s a simple ring, but it’s an insane material that people think is amazing. What that allows me to do is I just post a video making a ring. If the video doesn’t get a lot of views, if the product page we make for it doesn’t get a lot of sells, we can just remove it as a product and whatever gets the most views is what’s going to get the most orders typically. That just allows us to have this wonderful feedback loop where we post what we think is cool. The market tells us what they think in terms of views, the number of likes the number of engagement, the number of orders. I know it allows us to really streamline our product lineup but just know what to feature on the homepage, what the offer sells on, et cetera.

Joris Bryon: I think that’s great because you always get that feedback from the market and you can tweak your marketing, but also your site based on that feedback. You learn a lot from what people actually want and what’s going to sell. That’s awesome. I can imagine that, because you’re working on all kinds of material. So, I guess take a lot more time to make others. How does that work for your pricing, for instance? Is time the factor? The time you put in? Is that the main factor for pricing or how does that work?

Patrick Adair: Typically that’s, you’re spot on. There’s not an exact science to it. The issue is, I could make a ring that’s complicated and intricate and requires a lot of time to make, and I can make it out of two different materials. One ring I could sell for more than the other. I could make a cool ring with a carbon fiber liner. One of them, I can make out of meteorite, and one of them I make out bog wood.

We found that in general, our customers aren’t willing to pay as much for a ring that’s made out of wood, even if it’s cool bog wood. In general, we try to match it to the hours it takes to produce the material cost and all of that. But mostly what it comes out to is what are people willing to pay for? I think that’s the biggest thing that dictates it. We make sure that we have profit margins that allow us to be really flexible with our pricing.

Then we just try to … We’ll have one ring that costs the exact same amount of materials to produce, takes the exact same number of hours to produce but we can charge double for one of them because the material is just associated with being more luxurious or higher quality.

Joris Bryon: Right. Do you sometimes test your pricing, or how do you figure out how much you’re willing to pay?

Patrick Adair: Yes, we do that a lot just to … It’s great data to figure out. We found that when we lowered the … We were looking for a ring to make really cheap. Our cheapest product on the site is just a good … We can run Facebook ads for it, and we can get an order for it, and we can break even on that. Then we’ve got this new customer who’s in our email system and maybe watches our YouTube videos now. So, it creates a long term strategy to create a profit from the buyer.

That was something where we’re like, well, let’s keep lowering this and borrowing this until we can really make this a popular ring, and hopefully, we can still at least break even on the sales that we make for it as our loss leader. That was how we experimented with the carbon fiber ring and it was really, that’s something I’d recommend a lot of people do.

That’s a very common approach. It’s called the loss leader product. You just find a product that applies to a lot of people, is it expensive to produce, and that you can make your cheapest product, just so you can get people opening their wallets and start getting involved with your brand. That’s what we did with that one.

Our glow stone rings, those are tricky, we go up and down on pricing with those. We do a ton of messing around with our pricing, but I’m trying to pull out a tip or a fun fact that people would see and realize something amazing, but it’s nothing crazy. Literally, we raise our pricing, see what it does, lower it, see what that does. We try to find a result that we like. We’re not getting too scientific about it.

Joris Bryon: No. It’s often one of the easiest ways to increase your average order value is just increasing your pricing. Especially if you have a proprietary product like yours and it’s just looking at and trying to find out how far people are willing to go in terms of price for a lot of people. I know it’s for a lot of Ecommerce and entrepreneurs, it is a very difficult thing, the pricing, it’s really finding out how much they should charge, and how much they can charge, can get away with basically. There’s no a lot of option-

Patrick Adair: I guess one thing that you made me think of there is the fact that our pricing is fairly high. That’s something I should say that even when we lower or raise it, it’s still pretty high, and our profit margins are really large in most scenarios. That’s been so beneficial for us, because there’s just so many … When you grow from being just one person to a whole company, we need to pay for our lawyers every month, editing, SEO, website development, we have a retainer we pay for our agency that does Facebook ads for us, insurance, our shop. I could go on and on and on. But now we have this ridiculous amount of running costs that we have as a company that we didn’t before.

If we didn’t have good profit margins, we would be losing money like crazy right now. That was something that was imperative for our success, because there’s no way, if my pricing was half or 70% less than it is now, there’s no way we’d be operating as a company, there’s no way we’d be profitable. If you’re trying to grow, you got to … It’s hard. I’m in a market where I’m making proprietary rings, rings I’ve designed myself. There’s not a lot of options for you to buy them unless it’s literally someone who’s copying me. A lot of people try to steer clear of that, because they like supporting the artists that made it. That’s an advantage to me. That’s just another reason why I’d recommend, hey, try to get something more proprietary, rather than just drop shipping or something that that’s such a cut throat market where it’s like, you can’t just double your pricing, you can’t. So, it’s tricky.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, absolutely. It’s hard to make a difference when you’re just drop shipping because basically you’re moving boxes. You can try to make a difference with customer service, but that’s usually there’s going to be others out there as well that offer great customer service, you can try to be quicker, but that’s part when you’re doing drop shipping. It’s very hard to stand out. Having a proprietary product gives you a great advantage in the market, I guess.

Basically, no one they can compare your with and you can raise your prices and make sure you have those profit margins, which in turn is the fuel for your entire business, of course. That makes sense. You mentioned the loss leader. I really like that approach. I know it’s very hard for some Ecommerce companies to come up with a good loss leader approach. Did it work right away for you guys or did it take some experimenting? Do you have an idea of how many of those people who buy the loss leader actually also come back and buy a second time?

Patrick Adair: My data is probably not super helpful for this, because our loss leader isn’t even a loss leader. It’s just a less profit leader.

Joris Bryon: That’s even better.

Patrick Adair: Essentially it’s, we know about the concepts, we know that having someone in our email newsletter is very, very valuable. We’re able to get a ton of sales every month from our email newsletter. Better than the amount of money we’re able to get out of each YouTube subscriber, better than what we’re able to get out of each Instagram follower, that is our best just pool of people. That’s essentially what we’re trying to do.

All we know is that if we can add to that, if we can get satisfied, happy customers, then we know it’s not going to be a bad thing. If anything, it can give us good reviews on Trust Pilot or Google Reviews or whatever. All we know is that it’s a very good thing. If we can still make even a penny of profit, then we’re willing to do that all day long.

It’s tricky because we’re in this lucky scenario where our loss leader isn’t really losing us money. There’s no math, we need to do that we don’t need to be on top of our data. Because no matter what happens, we’re still making money.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, that’s even better. That’s good.

Patrick Adair: Sorry for the long-

Joris Bryon: No-

Patrick Adair: That’s a good advice.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, absolutely. Because-

Patrick Adair: Always make a profit.

Joris Bryon: If you can make a profit on a loss leader, then it’s even better of course.

Patrick Adair: Yeah.

Joris Bryon: You already mentioned YouTube and you do a lot of YouTube. You have more than 600,000 subscribers now. You have a couple of videos on there with more than a million views. I believe there’s one even with 13 million views. I know it’s something some other Ecommerce owners really struggle with. How did you make it work for your brand?

Patrick Adair: Just YouTube in general?

Joris Bryon: Yeah.

Patrick Adair: That’s a great question. It’s a really hard question. I’ll give my best advice, but then someone’s going to go out and do this, and there’s almost like a 99% chance that it’s not going to just work right away.

Joris Bryon: Just tell us what worked for you.

Patrick Adair: For me, in my experience, and I’m super … I was raised on YouTube, I didn’t have TV, I didn’t have Netflix. I watched YouTube. That’s all I had for entertainment pretty much other than video games growing up. I have watched every single genre of YouTube video you can imagine pretty much, except for the bad ones. I’d watch makers making things, I’d watched gamers playing video games, I watched a ton of tech reviews. I’m really into tech and I was obsessed with smartphones for a long time.

All through growing up, I was like 13 years old and made a YouTube channel about tech. It wasn’t ever super successful. It was in a few ways. I had a few videos get over 100,000 views as a probably 14 year old kid, and I made a couple hundred bucks off that channel. So, that was great. I was always experimenting and figuring out what works, what doesn’t. That was the experience I needed to know what the community was like. I know there’s so much potential on YouTube, but it’s always very hard to start a YouTube channel. It’s really hard to get the, I guess you could call it the escape velocity, that’s what they call it when you get into orbit. It’s really difficult to do that. If you just go on YouTube, you make an account and you post videos, even if you’ve got great search engine optimization everything, what you’re probably going to find is that for at least the first few months, you’re not going to get hardly any views. I’m talking like five to 99 views on each video.

The way YouTube’s algorithm works, and this is all just speculation, but if you think of it in terms of logical concepts, I think it does make sense. YouTube, in order to know if your video is good, they need to get a lot of data on your video. They need to know, is it a good video or is it not? If there’s not a lot of people watching, they can’t tell that. But if you get a couple thousand people watching, and they’re enjoying the video, you got a lot of watch time, you’ve got a lot of comments, a lot of activity, it seems like people are genuinely enjoying that video.

The algorithm is smart. You’re not going to trick it with bots, you’re not going to trick it with fake comments or doing a giveaway to get people to comment. The algorithm knows. In general, it’s almost impossible to trick it. If you can make good videos and you can push people to them. Say, you have an Instagram page like I did, if you can push people from your Instagram to watch your YouTube videos, and if you can make your YouTube videos interesting, then all of a sudden YouTube has the data that they need to know that they say, hey, okay, this is a good video.

Certain people in this demographic have really liked it. Because a lot of those people on Instagram have YouTube accounts. So, YouTube knows a lot of stuff about them. So, they say, hey, this guy who likes do wall tools, likes this video. We found that 20 people who liked the wall tools liked this video. We’re going to show it to an audience that also likes tools. Then from there, it finds our audience and then we’ll find another audience. Oh, this is good for just the DIY community in general. So, YouTube will start recommending your video, and that’s the key to success.

One thing that I didn’t realize that some people didn’t understand, and a lot of people do. I’m not trying to call myself smart or special, but people who aren’t familiar with YouTube, they’ll post a video and it’ll get like 100 views and they’re like, dang, that video was a fail. I’m sorry it didn’t work out. But then six months later, they’ll come back, and it’ll have 20,000 views or 50,000 views. They’re like, how did that work? Because, like Instagram, you get probably 90% of the likes that you’re going to get in the first week, and probably 99% of the likes you’re going to get in the first month. The life of your content is very, very short on Instagram or on YouTube, it’s almost infinite. As long as that video is still interesting, it’s still relevant. YouTube is still going to search out and find people to watch your video.

It’s a long play. So, you got to make good videos, good videos that people are going to enjoy watching. You got to find a way to push people to it because it’s really, really hard to just have a random lucky viral video, it almost never happens. I would recommend … I think it’s a lot easier to build an Instagram page to 10,000 followers than it is YouTube to maybe build up an Instagram page, and then start pushing people to watch your videos. If they’re relevant, they’ll probably be interested.

You can do stuff like … Reddit would have been great for me. I could have got onto Reddit and gone to the jewelry pages and posted my rings and not try to spam it like a business. Reddit hates that, the users especially. You just post like hey, check out this cool ring I made. Then you can post a link to the video or something and you can figure out what people respond to well and what they don’t like. But eventually, you’ll probably get something that gets a couple thousand clicks. That can be everything that you need to kickstart the growth of your YouTube channel because those first 1,000 to 10,000 subscribers are really hard to get. If you can get 1,000 to 10,000 real actual fans, then at that point, you’ve secured the algorithm. It’s going to take you seriously, and it’s going to start recommending your videos.

Joris Bryon: Then it almost goes automatically. I know it’s not going automatically. But it’s still a lot of time and effort in it. But you have to reach that-

Patrick Adair: Yeah, you’re still putting the same amount of effort, but you’re getting 10,000 times as many views. So yeah, that’s critical. What a lot of people recommend is just persistence and keep at it. That’s absolutely true. But if you’re going to do that, there has to be other parts to it. If you’re just going to sit there and post, make post after post after post and you don’t have a strategy, you don’t have a way to get people to view those videos, then you’re just going to have a 50 view video, and then another 50 view video and then another 50 view video forever and ever and ever. You really got to be consistent. It’s meaningless if you can’t figure out how to push people there.

I call those methods brute force strategies, where it’s like, you can do whatever it takes. If you’re posting videos on quick car repair tips, maybe you’ve got a Honda Civic, and you’re showing people how to not change the oil, because everyone knows how to do that. No one’s going to want to go click on that, but maybe something like how to replace the stereo in five minutes. You can make a video of that. Then you can go on to Facebook, and you can find groups of people who are specifically interested in the Honda Civic. It’ll be like Honda Civic owners only.

You can join those groups and they’ll be groups of 50,000 people that you can just post to. It’s almost like you already have 50,000 subscribers at your fingertips, you just have to go join that group, and post that video and they’re all going to see it. If it’s a good video, they’re going to like it. Stuff like that, I’m just scratching the surface with that, but just know that you should fully, fully immerse yourself in brute force strategies like that.

Joris Bryon: Great advice. You could almost even turn around and go to those groups first and look at what they’re really talking about and just begin and then create your video based on that so that it’s going to have more traction.

Patrick Adair: It’s the ultimate loop. Just like with … If I was just sitting in a basement and making rings, the rings that I was just making would probably be completely different from the rings that I make now. I didn’t really realize that until recently, but it’s like, oh, what I do is completely dictated by what I’ve seen to be successful. If I make something that glows in the dark, people love it. So, I start doing more glow in the dark stuff. Or maybe I would have got bored of that and switched to something else. I do meteorite and people lose their mind. Of course I make 10 more meteorite designs. I didn’t realize that till recently, but that has been just absolutely 100% important because I wouldn’t be making as good of design.

They’d be good cool rings, I’m sure. I don’t know, who cares, but they wouldn’t be rings that a broad audience likes necessarily.

Joris Bryon: What about Pinterest? You’ve moved mainly if I understand correctly from Instagram to YouTube. Maybe you can still do something on Instagram. But what about Pinterest? I know that it’s a platform a lot of Ecommerce owners tend to overlook because most of them are focused on Facebook, on Instagram or YouTube, but they don’t think about Pinterest. Your product seems like a good fit for that. We’ve seen some of our clients having success on Pinterest as well. Do you do anything on Pinterest?

Patrick Adair: Yes. We recently started I think, right up on the end of 2018, there we started. So, less than a year. I’m really glad you brought this up because this was the revelation of the year for me. This is the biggest thing was … It’s similar to these Facebook groups I was just talking about. I’ll get into that in a sec, but we’ve gone from zero monthly views to 700,000. It’s just been like clockwork, it’s been easy. It’s been like nothing else I’ve ever done. It’s literally like you could write a book on how to do it, and nine out of 10 people would be successful at it, I feel like as long as you had a product that is good enough. It was insane.

We got a lot of help from … We just met these people through the community. There’s a convention called CVX in Utah. It’s like a mini VidCon or something. But it’s for more than just YouTubers. There’s Pinterest bloggers, just all sorts of people. We’ve met some really great people. I don’t know if they want me name dropping them, so I won’t. But just all these wonderful help from people that are like, why aren’t you guys on Pinterest? Or Pinterest, that’s for recipes for girls. We make men’s rings. Who cares?

They’re like, “Are you dumb? There’s 300 million users on Pinterest, and 20% of them are guys. Probably half of … Not half, but a big part of your audience is girls looking for rings for their fiancé. So, are you dumb?” So, we’re like, “Okay, we better do this.” They’ve told us what we need to do. They’ve told us what style of photography is going to resonate with people on their better. We don’t just want sterile pictures on a white background. We want setting shots. If it’s my Stardust ring, we will go and put it in some sand that looks like moon dust and then be saturated and make it look like a cool picture that was taken on the moon or the shipwreck ring, we put it on an ocean setting and all of that.

There’s just a lot of little tips and tricks to make your content do better. But the biggest thing was make good Pinterest posts, start posting them to your board. But what you need to do is go join other people’s boards. I didn’t understand how this worked. But it’s just like Facebook group, someone will have 20,000 Pinterest followers, you request to join their board, and you can just post, and they’re going to have rules like only post one thing every 24 hours. But you need to take advantage of that. With Pinterest, more is more.

Instagram, this has been a big fundamental difference. Instagram, you can only spend like 30 minutes a day on Instagram before you’re just wasting your time. You take a picture, edit it, make a caption, make a post. That’s how you can do. You can’t post 100 times a day and get 100 times the views. That’s if anything going to drive people away. There’s only so much time you can put into it.

But Pinterest, it’s like you just need to go join 1000 boards, and you can make 1000 posts a day, you can make Pinterest your full-time job. That was amazing. It’s almost as if you’re running 1000 accounts if you’ve joined 1000 boards. So, you need to play by the rules, you need to know what you’re doing. But just you can create a ton of content and start posting it all over the place, and people love it, it’s great. They’re looking for good content for their boards, just like how you’re looking for viewers for your content. It’s a symbiotic relationship that you just post, everyone loves it and you just post more and more and more, you join more and more boards.

It’s shockingly easy. I don’t think it’s going to be like that forever. Because that’s how everything is. As soon as something’s easy, it starts a gold rush, and pretty soon, there’s so many people trying to take advantage of it that it becomes hard. That’s just the nature of capitalism or anything in general. Get on Pinterest, look up how to do it, how to do it properly, and it will do wonders for you, I promise.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, that’s amazing. Those numbers are quite impressive. It’s probably the most overlooked platform. Pinterest has been around, I think longer than Instagram. They’ve been around for ages now. But still, mostly commercial owners haven’t tested it even.

Patrick Adair: It flies under the radar.

Joris Bryon: Yeah, it flies under the radar. If you measure those numbers of how many people are on there … It’s true, a lot of people associate it probably with recipes and stuff. But it’s a lot more than that. It’s maybe not a match for every kind of product, but it definitely is for any kind of product that has a very visual aspect to it like yours, of course.

Patrick Adair: Yeah, what I’d say is, Pinterest can be … You’re not going to get as many loyal followers from that. If someone follows me on Instagram, then they’re going to see all my posts. They’re going to like me as a person, they’re probably going to check out my website. But Pinterest, it’s like, they’re a viewer, they’re not a follower of us. They see our stuff, but it’s just that kind of philosophy of do you go for the quality of viewers, or do you go for the quantity of viewers? Because I’d rather have 700,000 viewers that are only 10% likely to make an order versus 100 viewers that are 100% likely to make an order. If that makes sense.

Joris Bryon: Right.

Patrick Adair: I think that’s why it goes under the radar is because it doesn’t create the best quality of follower, but I think I’m 100% in the opinion that it more than makes up for it. If their followers are only half as good, then I almost promise you, you’ll have twice as many if not 10 times as many followers.

Joris Bryon: So, let’s all join Pinterest.

Yeah, cool. You’ve grown your Ecommerce. In just a few years you’ve grown it into a great result. What do you believe are the keys to grow an Ecommerce in today’s environment?

Patrick Adair: The biggest things for us have just been getting it in front of people. Traditionally, people have to do that with paid ads. That’s the limitation. Our key has just been organic social media, and that’s what we’ve been talking about this entire time. Just Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, anything you can do to get people to look at your stuff. I think that’s just been our key.

We do paid Facebook ads, and we do all of that. It’s tricky, it’s a grind. Especially for us where we’ve got good profit margins, but you almost need much higher profit margins to be successful on Facebook, if that’s all you’re doing. Even in the fortunate scenario we’re in it’s still difficult to work on Facebook.

It’s hard, because I hate just saying, just go out there and make a YouTube page that gets millions of views. Because you can’t just do that overnight. I think it’s a long play. I think what you need to be doing is just be very aware of the market, and I think you need to try a lot and a lot of different revenue streams. I’ve given presentations on just this, and I call it brute force marketing, and it’s something that we started doing as an agency now or will actually do it for our customers.

I’ve put a lot of thought and effort into this. It’s just you need to just … I think about fishing, it’s just cast a bunch of nets everywhere. So, start trying to figure out how to get popular on Imager, figure out how to be popular on Reddit. There’s a completely different … I could probably write like a 15 to 20 page book on each different social media of tips and tricks on how to be successful there. Every single social media is going to be entirely different, which is what’s really interesting.

I think when most people think of social media, it’s like, okay, I need to go out and I need to take pictures of my product, and I need to repost them on every single social media. It’s like that’s good, especially if you’ve already got a following there, but you’re never going to have any organic success there. So, you need to figure out how Reddit works, what people like on there, and how to strategize and make a good Reddit post, and do that and you should see some success. But that’s not going to work for a Facebook group.

Facebook groups and Reddit are very similar. So, you need to tweak your strategy, apply it to a Facebook group, and then Instagram completely different. Take a nice picture, caption it, hashtag it. Do stuff like giveaways, those can be super effective. That’s what works for Instagram. Videos on Instagram, if I just post my YouTube video to Instagram, it’s not going to be successful. It’s never going to see any organic growth outside of my audience. I can’t just repost my YouTube video. What we need to do is we need to go make an edit for that we can make a 30 second version that is a lot more just back to back action, that’s a lot more just concentrated entertainment. That’s what’s going to be successful on Instagram.

There’s just a whole new strategy for every single social media. YouTube, I need to make a 10 minute video that has a lot of personality in it. It needs to have awesome cinematography, so great camera quality, good lighting, good close up shots, very detailed everything, nice music, everything like that. Just trying to have a good strategy for every social media, and not just reposting, that is I think my biggest advice for how do you get that success and it’s getting eyes in front of your stuff. And how do you get eyes in front of your stuff without money? It’s social media.

Joris Bryon: Right. I think that’s great advice. I’ve learned a lot in this interview. But we’re running out of time and just want to make sure people know how they can find you and learn more about you. What’s the best place for people to connect with you?

Patrick Adair: I would say the best place to contact me would just be either my email, [email protected], or my Instagram, my personal Instagram page is Patrick_Adair. I guarantee you, you can get ahold of me. You can go to my website, you can go to our contact form, you can contact Alex and say, “Hey, I want to talk to Patrick about this.” Alex will talk to me and say, “Hey, this dude wanted to do this.” If you try, I will get your message. That’s all I’ll say.

Joris Bryon: Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Patrick.

Patrick Adair: Thank you so much. This was fantastic. It was a lot of fun.